tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post1974115142345009078..comments2023-09-16T09:00:31.715-04:00Comments on Telecommuter Talk: Pro-Choice NOT Pro-AbortionEmily Bartonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13971084813206845680noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post-38117303863476895802008-11-08T14:59:00.000-05:002008-11-08T14:59:00.000-05:00Amen Emily, amen.Amen Emily, amen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post-7540276969698624242008-11-06T17:31:00.000-05:002008-11-06T17:31:00.000-05:00Litlove, oh yes, I'm sure it does have lots to do ...Litlove, oh yes, I'm sure it does have lots to do with the sanctified notion of women as carers.<BR/><BR/>Sara, thank you!<BR/><BR/>Raych, oh yes, wouldn't it be nice if there were centers all over the country where unwed mothers and their babies would get extended care and support until they were ready to be out on their own (no matter how long that might be)? And if people were really, truly willing to raise children who weren't their own? We fall down in so many, many ways when it comes to caring for children in this society.<BR/><BR/>Sara, thanks!<BR/><BR/>Hobs, amen. It's like the bumper sticker I once saw: "God is Pro-Life." All I could think was "pro-whose-life, if God is responsible for all life?" After all, cancer cells are alive. They also happen to be natural. And if God is pro-life, having the powers God is supposed to have, wouldn't death be nonexistent? As you say, both life and death are natural. And then, of course, there are those "natural abortions," otherwise known as miscarriages. It would seem nature is responsible for those.Emily Bartonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13971084813206845680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post-42130475454379262262008-11-05T18:42:00.000-05:002008-11-05T18:42:00.000-05:00I'm with you, Emily.I saw a banner on a church fiv...I'm with you, Emily.<BR/>I saw a banner on a church five or six years ago that read "Life: Nature's Choice." The more I thought about it, the more it bothered me. The subtext, of course, is that abortion (or "anti-life" if you will) is against nature. Where shall we begin with this? Are all things that are "natural" automatically to be desired? Are then to push away all things that do not appear to be the "choice" of "nature"? Let's leave for the moment the ridiculous proposition that "nature" is some sort of cognitive entity (and not a complex of interconnected entities) that makes something like a "choice." <BR/>What really bothers me about the sign and the underlying attitude is the way "life" becomes fetishized. In making life a fetish, something that is cherished as an argumentative strategy, the signmakers paradoxically diminish life, and it loses its real existence to hover in a sort of rhetorical purgatory. In making life the only thing valued by nature, the signmakers forget that death is also an important part of nature--absolutely as important as life, for without death there can be no life. Both life and death are part of nature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post-6483321796068948572008-11-05T13:59:00.000-05:002008-11-05T13:59:00.000-05:00Beautifully written.Beautifully written.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post-58261221753936625872008-11-05T12:32:00.000-05:002008-11-05T12:32:00.000-05:00*deep breath*I am a whole-hearted, Bible-thumpy Ch...*deep breath*<BR/><BR/>I am a whole-hearted, Bible-thumpy Christian, but I am also quite aggressively pro-choice and pro-legalize-gay-marriage, which are our two hot buttons. I feel like they're both tied together because WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH? (not you, Emily, but you, other Christians)<BR/><BR/>Do you think that by taking away the right to safe, legal abortions that you are saving lives? Just as many unborn babies will die, and more mothers! Making something illegal doesn't make it stop happening (this is where I segue into the gay-marriage thing because do you think that by preventing them from getting married, you are making them less gay? Which do you have a problem with, their sexual preferences or them having the same rights as you?)<BR/><BR/>But back to the abortion thing. Every woman should have the right to make an INFORMED choice about whether or not she wants to have an abortion. This means she has to hear the baby's heartbeat, understand the physical and emotional ramifications TO HERSELF, and still decide to do this. None of this 'terminating a tissue mass' shit, you need to KNOW what you're doing, and how it will fuck you up later. It is the government's job to make sure that every woman has the right to legally and safely get an abortion.<BR/><BR/>ON THE OTHER HAND!!! Every woman should have the right to choose to KEEP IT, and this is the choice we neglect. 13-year-old baby-mamas with no family support don't have, in any accurate sense of the word, a CHOICE to keep their babies. A friend of mine who's baby-daddy left when he found out she was pregnant (and who was totally willing to keep the baby and start a family if he'd stuck around) didn't have the choice to bring the baby to term and raise it by her poor, uneducated self. She also didn't know that even now, years later, pregnant women still make her cry. Every woman who finds herself in an 'accidentally pregnant' situation should have the choice to bring the baby to term and adopt it out into a loving family, or to raise it herself with the support of the community.<BR/><BR/>This is where Christians have failed. How can we point our holier-than-thou fingers at teenage parents and victims of rape and, yes, even girls who just didn't take precautions and partied too hard, and tell them that this one mistake is going to cost them the rest of their lives unless we are willing to shoulder some of that burden? Everyone who is rabidly anti-abortion should have two or three adopted children. If I am going to say Please don't kill that baby, I also need to be willing to say, I will take it for you, no matter what your reasons are or its problem is. I am white and middle-class and have great parents and a loving husband. I can have a baby now, so I'll take yours and you go back to high school and get a real job and when you're ready, you have your own babies. You have your own babies and do it with an easy conscience and a healthy mind, because I will take care of this one that you couldn't.raychhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321213376462899047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post-26724256581824452702008-11-05T03:37:00.000-05:002008-11-05T03:37:00.000-05:00Bravo! I can't help but feel that if it were men w...Bravo! I can't help but feel that if it were men who had to have children born from rape, or children with severe defects, or simply children conceived whilst abusing drugs and born into families without the income to support them, I simply don't think the question would arise. For me, it's all bound up with a sanctified image of women as carers. No matter what. But that simply won't fit reality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post-43213958855599411152008-11-05T01:06:00.000-05:002008-11-05T01:06:00.000-05:00MFS, glad to be "seconded." (You'd make a good Pre...MFS, glad to be "seconded." (You'd make a good Presbyterian.)<BR/><BR/>ZM, oh, if it were a speech, I'd be completely tongue-tied, and you'd be wondering what on earth I was going on about. Thank goodness for a virtual world in which I get virtual cheers and wild clapping!<BR/><BR/>Mandarine, hear, hear! I'm often saying, "Pro-life, until the abused and neglected child becomes a serial killer, and then we want death row." And I don't think you're being the least bit cynical when you point out the proportion of non-white children. I remember when I went to my first pro-choice rally and was met with women carrying "Don't want them? Let me adopt them!" signs. My thoughts? "Yeah, right. As long as they are healthy, little white babies, and not six-year-old, former crack-addicted (through their mothers), ADHD black babies with all kinds of other behavorial problems."Emily Bartonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13971084813206845680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post-49178322447943103852008-11-05T00:38:00.000-05:002008-11-05T00:38:00.000-05:00Like always, I'd love a combined survey to show ho...Like always, I'd love a combined survey to show how many people can say in the same sentence that they are pro-life and pro-capital-punishment; or pro-life and pro-war; or pro-life and pro no health care for the unemployed.<BR/><BR/>I am overly cynical, but I am sure that if pro-life activists knew the proportion of non-white children that would result from a total ban on abortion, they'd think twice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post-50442981117060733122008-11-04T20:42:00.000-05:002008-11-04T20:42:00.000-05:00Really well put. If you were giving a speech I wo...Really well put. If you were giving a speech I would be cheering you on and clapping wildly.ZoesMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13279493011192565601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28169009.post-66537481442614858362008-11-04T19:10:00.000-05:002008-11-04T19:10:00.000-05:00And I second everything you just said. Great post,...And I second everything you just said. Great post, Emily.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com